Transcript of the interview by David Schwab from Clients&Candidates with Dr Christian Kessel in October 2023.
Distributed via LinkedIn and the Clients&Candidates YouTube channel.
Before David Schwab moved into recruitment consulting, he initially worked as a lawyer in a law firm. After several years in legal recruitment, he co-founded clients&candidates. He is one of its Managing Director and advises companies and law firms. (https://clientsandcandidates.com)
Dr Christian Kessel is a coach and consultant for successful business development, and was previously a lawyer and partner in two international law firms (Baker&McKenzie, Bird&Bird) for 32 years until his regular retirement in April 2022.
The text has only been slightly edited in a few cases. It largely corresponds to the spoken word in the interview.
David
My guest today is Dr Christian Kessel. Christian Kessel was a partner in various major international law firms for over 20 years. He specialised in commercial contracts and litigation matters, particularly in the automotive and renewable energy sectors. And it’s no secret that Christian was also very, very successful in these areas. He was a so-called rainmaker. This means that he was the partner with the highest-turnover in Germany and the third-highest-turnover worldwide. How he achieved this and what tips he would give associates, senior associates and counsel on how to develop their own careers – that is exactly what we are discussing today. And that’s why I’m delighted that you’re part of this series of interviews.
Christian
Yes, David, thank you very much for inviting me. I’m very pleased to join you. I’m ready for all your questions.
David
Okay, great. Then let’s start with the opening question: apart from the aspects I’ve just mentioned, what are perhaps one or two things we need to know about you, both personally and professionally?
Christian
So privately. I am married, love sailing, am involved in the church and am glad that I retired at the end of April 2022 and now have a much more relaxed lifestyle. But I don’t want this to be misunderstood: they were totally great and wonderful years and I always enjoyed working as a lawyer and also as a partner in such a large law firm and had fantastic projects and a fantastic team; it was great. And perhaps it should also be said that as a commercial lawyer I started out in the classic way with simple contract law, drafting general terms and conditions or revising general terms and conditions as well as contract negotiations, but then specialised in the automotive industry and in the field of renewable energies, actually I only did offshore business in Germany. This means in particular, and this is also known from the Juve magazine, the grid connection systems of TenneT in the German North Sea from the offshore wind farms to the nearest onshore substation. Both areas, automotive and renewable energies/offshore, were fantastic things.
David
Okay, marvellous. Let’s start with your CV in chronological order. Right at the beginning: why did you choose law? And what might you have become if you hadn’t opted for law?
Christian
I decided in favour of law primarily because my parents recommended it to me and I couldn’t think of anything better. So I went into it very naively. In the first semester, I thought the most exciting lecture would be criminal law because I loved watching detective shows. And that was the most boring and awful subject ever. And what really appealed to me was civil law. I really enjoyed it and it also showed me that I was right to study law.
David
Okay, marvellous. What if we take a look at your career now and look at the big stage, namely your role as a partner. What would you say in retrospect? What is your basic concept of the role of a partner in a large law firm?
The role of the lawyer: entrepreneur, self-employed and self-determined (and wanting to be self-determined)
Christian
I think the most important thing is that you see yourself as an entrepreneur and as self-employed,. Being self-employed also means acting independently and therefore, to a certain extent, deciding for yourself what you want to do, in which area you want to work, but also how many hours you want to work. And whether you’re a morning person like me, who likes to be in the office at 7 or 7.30 a.m. in the summer, but then goes home at 7 p.m., or whether you’re a night person who prefers to arrive at 10 or 10.30 a.m. and stays until midnight. So these are aspects of being active in a self-determined way. And as I understand it, this also applies to employed lawyers. You should develop the self-image of self-employed at an early stage, regardless of whether you work as an employee or are quasi self-employed as a partner – also in the tax sense. And in addition to these aspects of being self-employed, it is also important to think entrepreneurially and be entrepreneurial.
Entrepreneurship and business development go hand in hand
Christian
And for me, that is closely linked to business development: Seeking and pursuing opportunities, seizing and following opportunities that come my way and really having an idea of how I can grow my business.
But with more business comes the need to expand the team. And so at some point you have two associates, then you have four associates. Then I took on research assistants because they were more flexible. When they were all at the limit of their workload and we could only pay them out and could no longer reimburse their time for their doctorate, we took on more people and that’s how a team grows, which is ultimately like a company.And you also manage the increasing number of secretaries etc..
David
Yes, thank you. You’ve already touched on many, many points. Entrepreneurial responsibility, self-determination, we’ll definitely come back to that later. You have now set up your own business as a coach and consultant in this area and can also give tips. But the first paradox that you just mentioned, which is perhaps a paradox for many, is the issue of reconciling leisure time and still being a partner. So you’ve just mentioned a few times. It probably came as a surprise to many people that you managed to do this too. But you say it’s possible if you organise yourself properly.
Efficiency, intentionality, work-life balance
Christian
Yes, it is a question of self-organisation. It’s a question of efficiency. I was one of the most efficient people at my last law firm. But I did it very intentionally.
For example, I went to partner meetings with the list of partners I wanted to talk to and what I wanted to talk to them about. I didn’t just hang out at the bar. Yes, that’s also part of it. Nice food and the event. But also with a clear vision. Who do I want to talk to about what? To advance the business of myself, my team and the law firm as a whole. And let me put it the other way round. In the more than 30 years I’ve been in law firms, I’ve often had the impression that there are people who spend far too much time on small talk and gossip and picking up or spreading the latest gossip. And that all takes up time. And then you just have to make up the time. At least if you have a full desk.
David
Absolutely.
Christian
I tried to minimise that as much as possible. Or I had a friend in a law firm who was a dealer in gossip and I sat down with him once a week for half an hour. Then I was up to date. But I just didn’t put in those hours myself.
David
Compressed. Very good. Yes, preparation is a good keyword. I think you should see all professional appointments for what they are, a professional context, and then behave professionally and prepare accordingly. Yes, efficiently, as you say. If we look back over these 30 years, what was perhaps one of the greatest successes or milestones in your career? Is there anything that has stayed with you in particular?
Some personal professional milestones
Christian
I certainly remember my first contract negotiation, which I conducted alone, without a partner, which was a lot of fun. But apart from that, these huge projects, some of which I did, negotiating a contract for a grid connection system for 1.2 billion euros as a project contract, few people do that with such a volume. And we once cancelled the supply to a major car manufacturer, carried out a delivery stop and that was also a totally exciting thing. So those are two highlights from my two main areas that I just want to highlight.
David
Let’s continue with the topic of success. I already said that earlier. You were also a rainmaker in this unit and achieved outstanding success and for many, it’s an incredible achievement to work in a large law firm at all, to develop further, to be promoted, perhaps even to become a partner at some point and then perhaps to become a rainmaker again is something very special. How did you get there? What were the milestones along the way?
Christian
Firstly, I would like to say that the term “rainmaker” actually comes from other lawyers in my team and from the firm, who perceived it in such a way that I was always bringing in new business and more and more clients and clients with more business, which meant that the team was constantly growing. I never set out to do that as such. I never intended to become one of the top three partners with the highest turnover in the firm. But it just turned out that way.
Rainmaker through continuous, consistent business development
Christian
And it has come about simply through consistent, regular, uninterrupted business development.
Being entrepreneurial is important, especially in business development.
And in the latter respect I like to make a distinction.
Cross Selling
Christian
Does one do more cross-selling? There are people who are extremely successful, who network perfectly within the law firm and get their work from all offices, especially in an international law firm, but also in a large national one. I’ve always done it differently.
Acquiring on the market
Christian
I preferred to go to the market myself and win new clients. And to convince them with my expertise, the experience and street credibility of my team. And that has worked out well.
David
Very good. What would be your recommendations for younger colleagues who would like to develop into a partner role themselves? Perhaps we should make a conscious distinction between the different seniorities, because every level, every grading has its own challenges. If we start chronologically, you’re an associate, you start, maybe you’ve been there for two or three years. In your opinion, what are the most important factors for further success, or perhaps from the beginning, up to this seniority? What can they do?
Learn the tools of the trade
Christian
Well, I mean, one thing is of course a lot of learning. We all know that anyone who comes out of university and thinks they know everything now or thinks they know everything after the second state examination,they usually fall quite low when they get the first memorandum back and are asked to do it again. And the second version is still in need of a lot of revision. So you don’t learn the legal tools of the trade during your studies or during your legal traineeship. At least not if you want to work in a large law firm. And you have to learn that first.
Developing a professional identity
Christian
Associated therewith is the development of a lawyer’s personality. Being an advisor also means taking responsibility for what you advise. Taking responsibility is more relevant at senior level, but you have to start learning this as a young lawyer and also start training and defending your opinions to the partner or the supervisor, but also be able to accept other opinions and also learn why someone says, “I only think this is the second best way; I think there is another way.
Learning to think like an entrepreneur
Christian
And then you have to learn to think entrepreneurially from the outset. In my case, everyone who came to me, whether as a young professional or laterally as Counsel or something like that, always had to do business development at the end of their first year.
How to make business development a success in the first year of your career
Christian
We had a series of events where we gave 1 or 2-day seminars, such as a series on “Current problems of automotive suppliers”. And if someone had worked on the same topic three times in the first year or something similar, then the person was fit for me to give a 20 to 40-minute presentation at the events. Many then did this with trembling and trepidation. That’s also part of it. But I was always there. The big fear is always the questions that you can’t answer. If you’re well prepared, you’ll eventually have the confidence to give the presentation. But the questions from the audience. And I’ve always said that I’ll be there. I take the difficult questions or the unpleasant things, I cushion them. But the exciting thing is that there were never any. Because the participants in these events aren’t that much smarter. On the contrary, they come to learn something. And that’s why these dreaded things never happened.
For me, business development starts in the first year of any career, at least at its end. And of course, you’re not the person then who says, “I’ve done everything a thousand times before”, but you can deal with that.You can say, “but I’m in a team, they all can do it. The partner has been doing it for 20 years” and so on and so forth.
So it shapes entrepreneurial thinking when you get involved in the first year of your career. But that doesn’t happen for the most part. Even in my law firm, we were the only team where we did it that way.
Developing own initiatives and empowerment through partners
Christian
And so this continues through the seniority phases and at some point, as a senior associate or counsel, you also have to take your own initiatives, where as a partner I then only contribute as an advisor, mentor, encourager and someone who contributes his experience, regarding what works, what perhaps works less, what do you have to pay attention to?
But this is also the time when you have to take initiatives yourself. That is also empowerment. A good partner is someone who empowers their team. So there are still partners who say no, business development is purely a matter for partners, but they don’t develop any further. Their team doesn’t grow. Time is limited. That’s why one of my secrets, apart from this constant business development, was to involve the team and let them do things and hand things over to them.
Triple win-win situation
Christian
And I don’t always have to do everything myself. And that has worked out wonderfully and is a win-win situation for the team members, for me and for the firm as a whole.
David
Now, of course, you have addressed the ideal situation, namely being in a setting or with a partner where you really have the opportunity to develop further, where you are perhaps also challenged and encouraged. I mean, for one or two people it was meant nicely, the nudge to stand up there and do it, learn that. And we often find that one of the most frequent complaints from senior associates and counsel is that they are much more involved in just delivering work products instead of really learning and developing themselves. So perhaps to exaggerate: business development is deliberately held back behind pure work performance. In other words, no provision is made for someone to develop as an entrepreneurial lawyer personality. What advice would you want to give associates or what points should associates pay attention to in order to recognise for themselves whether this is the right path? Should they demand something? Should they have regular conversations? How do you challenge that? I mean, the danger is that someone just arrives at the firm and keeps going, keeps going, but doesn’t really question themselves and continues to develop and thinks that it will happen at some point, but it doesn’t happen.
Christian
Yes, that’s a brilliant question and one of the main problems in many law firms and especially for many younger, but also older colleagues who, as you describe, somehow want to take the next step, but it’s not enough.
WANTING to do business development – also to gain freedom
Christian
The business case is not there, neither in the law firm nor for a possible move. So what do you have to do? I think the first thing is that you have to have an awareness and also the will to want to do business development because it gives you freedom. It gives me the freedom to lead a self-determined life, both professionally and privately. Once I’m a partner, nobody can tell me I only have 30 days’ holiday a year or where I work from or anything like that. Life as a partner is much more self-determined than as an employed lawyer.
But even as an employed lawyer, the experience with business development also gives me the freedom to change things with much more self-confidence, either to change teams within the law firm or, if necessary, to change law firms.
Demand business development training.
Christian
And the second thing is to demand business development training, yes, absolutely. This means requesting training in business development from the Business Development Department or HR.
All these soft skills that are always on offer, presentation techniques and conversational skills and so on, are all well and good. But that’s only half the battle. Training in business development is just as important. How do I actually go about it? What do I need to think about fundamentally? What strategies do I want to pursue? And how do I make sure that I actually implement them day after day, or at least week after week?
When there is no training in business development: Manage your career
Christian
What if nobody teaches me? Because the partner doesn’t do it or isn’t interested in it, because many partners don’t do much business development themselves – you can’t even learn from them. If you have such a rainmaker as a partner, you can at least learn how they do it, even if they don’t have the time or inclination to explain it and pass it on. But you still have a role model.
And apart from that, I always say: Manage your career. If things aren’t going well enough in a law firm, you have to change. And I now also have people in coaching who come up to me and say: “I’m not getting anywhere and there’s no training and what should I do?”
And I am happy to help with business development. I can also help with the basic decision. And then you have to see if there are good alternatives, which you can also provide, etc.
So, just doing the years and faithfully working through everything rarely leads to a partnership. There are also cases where you are made a partner for eight or ten years of faithful slave labour. But even as a partner, you are then left to your own devices. Where does the work come from? How do you manage it? I’ve also seen cases where young lawyers have been made partners. The partner for whom they had worked for many years no longer gave them work from that day on and they were left empty-handed. They had very bitter, very hard years to teach themselves business development and develop a great business case.
So it’s part of the job and, in my opinion, it’s also part of the training profile of a good law firm to offer business development programmes.
David
Above all, it could perhaps also be the partner’s own aspiration to develop good people, which is also fun and enjoyable. And strengthens your own practice.
Christian
Absolutely, absolutely. But firstly, not everyone has that ability.
Partner attitudes to business development in the team
Christian
Secondly, there are also partners who say: oh, my best man, my best woman. If I lose them, everything will collapse. If, after 15 years, I start again with one or two junior associates who were previously managed by my senior associate or counsel, then I’m at the abyss . And these partners in no way support the desire for partnership,or, beforehand,for their team member’s own business development. So they exist too.
Recognising dynamic teams in law firms
Christian
You really have to see where you stand. And I can only say that young people should look around the firm. Where are the partners who are good at business development? And you can see that – as a salaried lawyer, you don’t usually notice how turnover is growing, at most you may learn that from hearsay – but what you do notice is when the team is constantly growing. Successful partners have constantly growing teams. Partners who have a solid business case and make ends meet, but without continuous growth, spend their entire lives with two or three associates or maybe just one. They then change every few years for one reason or another. But the number of team members never grows.
What are the secrets of dynamic teams?
Christian
So you have to look at which are the dynamic teams and what are the secrets of these teams? And what do the partners do? And then perhaps turn to the partners privately . I have to be honest and say that, remembering my time as a partner, I couldn’t have coached someone who wasn’t part of my team in the same way as I do today, because I simply no longer have all this client work and all that, I only coach and do training. But back then it worked with my team because we were constantly in discussions anyway. And once you’ve discussed one work product, you quickly discuss the next business development initiative. But that wasn’t really coaching. It was more empowerment. Do it, try it, see how it works and follow it up. Have you already done that? Is it working? When does it take place? And just keep at it. But that was just talking to the team about all the topics and not specifically coaching. But I think there would always have been time for a conversation like the one we’re having now, and it’s always been a pleasure for me.
And I also had a few people from the firm who weren’t part of my team who asked me or asked for advice on this or that, there was always time for that, but not for such continuous coaching.
David
Yes, that’s perhaps a very, very important point, simply to see whether my partner is making time for me at all on their own initiative. Or at least if I ask him to, is it postponed once, is it constantly postponed? Is it unprepared? Perhaps the feedback is not in the sense of an annual employee appraisal, but simply because you can tell when someone wants to move forward and improve. And if that doesn’t meet with a favourable response, then perhaps you’re simply in the wrong place.
Christian
If you have good self-awareness, then you realise whether things are going well or not. So for me it was always important that associates had a continuous upward curve in their development. And I think that if they keep getting the same memo or the same type of memo back from me with the same basic comments, then they have to realise at some point, without having a big annual meeting or a serious discussion, that things aren’t going well and then either ask for help or think about what I need to change about myself or how I need to improve or go deeper? Or what are my issues? So that’s also a two-sided thing. I think somehow, especially in the last few years, there’s been too much “Tell me how it is”. “Tell me how I’m getting on”. “How am I doing?” And so on. So I think if you’re attentive in a good way,, you’ll notice for yourself whether things are going well or not. That’s how I’ve always perceived it for myself.
David
Definitely, it is also the responsibility of each individual to make themselves stand out. You discussed a point earlier that I also find very important. That’s why I perhaps want to emphasise it again. And that is to critically scrutinise this and to have this insider information or perhaps also to critically scrutinise your partner. And I think that’s something that needs to be a bit more in the general consciousness, even among younger colleagues. Because, of course, once you’ve been at a law firm for two, three or four years, you get your first pats on the back for what you do and you’re somehow just getting there. But time flies. Where do you actually set the course at the crossroads, do you really want to continue or not? And I think that far too many people really underestimate this to a certain extent and see it too uncritically. What is the partner like, how can I develop further? And so on and so forth. And I think that at the end of the day, a little insider information might help, because otherwise you always get the carrot and in the end it doesn’t work out.
Check strategically: Is there a place for me as a partner?
Christian
I mean, you also have to think critically about whether there is even room for a second partner in the area in which you are working with and for this partner. And will the law firm say yes, strategically and in terms of turnover, a second and a third and a fourth partner will fit in at some point? So you also have to consider, if I’m with a partner, in which direction am I going?
Well, I just know that in my first law firm I was part of a team where we mainly did commercial agency agreements and distributorship agreements, up and down, up and down. And the post-termination compensation claims. So that was all okay in terms of training. But somehow I knew after a year that my goal in life was not to do commercial agency – compensation claims and commercial agency – contracts.
Seize opportunities
Christian
And then the opportunity arose when the partner said “Yes, general terms and conditions are becoming more and more important here and we have to do more and more. And I don’t feel like doing T&C law. And don’t you want to do that?” And then I jumped on it, not really knowing what I was getting myself into. It’s also a topic that hardly ever comes up in legal education. Nobody told you back then that 95 per cent of all contracts are relevant to the law of general terms and conditions and things like that.And I really enjoyed that. And that was my topic and it opened doors back then.
At the time, I was still doing telecommunications law instead of energy law. When the privatisation of Deutsche Telekom was imminent and suddenly 1,000 independent telecommunications providers came onto the market, that was in 1997/98, they suddenly all needed general terms and conditions. And all of a sudden I was the one who prepared the general terms and conditions for the entire law firm for all the telecoms clients who were active in this new market. It was a really nice experience and generated huge turnovers. But it was a conscious decision to seize the opportunity to get out of boring commercial agency and distributorship law and do something different. So you have to think about what you can do. And of course I continued to make contracts in commercial agency law. But I focussed on something else and that was successful.
David
Yes, you saw an opportunity and probably also analysed where it was really promising for you. That is perhaps a very good bridge to what you are doing now, namely as a coach and consultant in the field of business development, especially for lawyers. Although I believe that there are many, many aspects that perhaps need to be mentioned, many, many aspects that don’t just apply to external lawyers, but are of course just as much a topic for in-house lawyers, like: to somehow connect properly in house as well, to acquire properly there too, internally, externally, even if the requirement is perhaps somewhat different. Or at least the aim.
Christian
I also believe that in-house, if you want to make a career there, you have to have a specialisation somehow and also show that you can lead larger teams well. So these are very similar aspects, except that you’re not as dependent on generating real financial turnover as an external lawyer has to. But otherwise there are many parallels.
David
Absolutely, yes. Then maybe we should talk about it a bit. I mean, coaching is once again an undefined legal term, so to speak. It’s very nebulous and unfortunately also inflationary and sometimes has negative connotations. Everyone is a sleep coach, a weight loss coach, whatever. What characterises a good coach for lawyers? What do you offer and what added value can you provide?
Coaching for lawyers
Christian
Yes, if you do proper coaching training, as I have been doing on the side for the last few years before I became self-employed, then you learn above all that as a coach you are called upon to use good questions to get the person you are coaching to develop their own solutions or, initially, their own options. If you have perhaps three or five possible options, then you also need to break down which one or two mean the most to the person? And then, by analysing and making your own decisions, to arrive at what you really should and want to do. That’s different from mentoring.
The difference to mentoring
Christian
When it comes to mentoring, I simply say here, I have 30 years of experience and I’ll tell you how it works. And if you do that, then everything will be fine. But there’s much less ownership involved, because that’s what Christian Kessel recommends. I try it out and it either works straight away or it works a little later or not at all. But if I have worked out my own solution in coaching, then I have a completely different level of ownership. Then I am motivated to implement it in a completely different way and can also critically scrutinise it in a completely different way if it doesn’t work so well and adjust it again with the coach.
Accountability to the coach
Christian
And that’s why another aspect of coaching is not only to develop action points at the end of this exploration model and to agree on them before the next session, but also accountability. Follow-up questions. Did you do it? Did it work? How did it go? Or why didn’t you do it? Or why did you have a bad experience? Then you talk about it.
Typical coaching topics
Christian
And one is, of course, kind of classic business development, where I do one-to-one or small group coaching – with two or three people perhaps – on all kinds of topics. Starting with What is your vision? Where do you actually want to go? In which area? Which areas do you want to focus on to develop your strategy? Pursuing the implementation. There is also a lot to work out, how do you proceed?
Coaching topics beyond business development
Christian
But what we’re getting to very quickly are the exciting experiences of the last year since I’ve been doing this. Quite often, topics come up in the third or fourth session: “Well, but I don’t have the time to implement everything we’re discussing here”. I say why not? “Yes,client work and this and that”. And then we’re suddenly on the subject of time management and client management.
For example, client management
Christian
And I have practised this with two people over the last few months, trying out and implementing managing the client in such a way that, as a lawyer, I suggest to the client by when I can deliver a work product and not simply accept all of their suggestions – with an enthusiastic “yes” in my voice and “oh no, that’s the fifth delivery for Wednesday evening” in my head. And I had to learn that the hard way myself.
One of my secretaries once left me at the time of the reform of the German Civil Code regarding the law of obligations because she said, “I can no longer stand the fact that every email and every letter starts with apologies for the delay in sending the draft contract. And I had to learn that I could somehow manage it better and differently, and I succeeded. But another lesson is: In discussions with clients on a Monday I offer them that I can do the work until Friday afternoon or Friday evening or something. And if it’s too late for the client, they have to tell me themselves. And if they then tell me that they have a board meeting on Thursday, and they have to be fully briefed by then. I understand that. Then I’ll do it until Thursday morning or Wednesday evening.
And the other thing is that you sometimes call a client and say, “I’m completely overloaded. I’ve often said, “I’m currently working on a pleading for another client, I have a court deadline, it has to be submitted on time, and if I had such a deadline for you, I would put you first and put all other clients on hold. Please understand that at the moment I am doing this for this client and the facts of the case have developed differently. We need a little more time. I need two more days for you”. Most people accept this.
How not to lose clients
Christian
The great fear of all lawyers, especially the partners, is that the client will leave me just because I say I can’t do it or something. The fear of losing a client is immense. But good management, trustworthy management, transparency, why and wherefore. That helps immensely. That’s how I’ve always handled it. I haven’t lost a single client because of it.
And those that I am now coaching and who have tried it out – to their immense surprise, if I may say so – it has now also worked for them. No loss of clients or instructions . So you have to break new ground somehow. And that’s also something one can learn in coaching.
Adapt your mindset: from Associate to Partner
Christian
So the change from Associate, from the Associate mentality is important: “I always have to work through everything as quickly as possible”, to the Partner mentality. “I have to manage. I also have to invoice. I have completely different obligations. I can no longer work in the same way as an associate”.
But nobody tells you that when you become a young partner. They either learn it themselves or they have to learn it with a bit of support.
All I do as a coach…..
Christian
And in this respect, all I do is use questions to lead people to their own thought processes and thus help them to manage their business better overall and then to have more time, energy and strength for business development, and thus also to get into the growth process.
David
Yes, great.
Christian
That’s totally exciting.
Business development and recruiting are 2 sides of the same coin
David
I think what you’re offering is very, very valuable. And I think it’s also something that many people would really appreciate if they actually did it. It’s often a bit ahead of the point at which we come into play, namely when you actually say, I see my limits here, I see my boundaries or I want to achieve more than I can. Where can I achieve that?
Christian
And I just wanted to say that it can also be after you got involved if your candidates don’t find favour with the law firms they are interested in because the business case is too small, too low, and they simply have to add to it. So it’s both before and after and it’s a mixed situation, it all fits together.
David
Although, of course, we always keep them very, very close when presenting the business case and so on and so forth.
Brief summary
David
But I think the business case is the key element, which is what you’ve always emphasised. If you have a good business case, you have a lot of opportunities in the market, you have a lot of personal freedom, whether you stay at the law firm and organise your life the way you want to or whether you say you have the freedom to go to another law firm and find the setup there that you really want. And if you also do good business development, then you don’t have to be afraid of becoming dependent on a client or of losing a large client because you are independent.
Compensating the “natural” loss of mandates
Christian
We also have to recognise that clients come and go. So when the General Counsel changes and a new one comes in and he brings his old law firm or his old friends from his student days with him, then you’re out of the client-relationship. In the case of mergers and takeovers, you are also lose a client very quickly.
There are many reasons why client relationships end for which you are not responsible. It’s not because of bad work or anything like that, it’s simply the circumstances.
And that’s another reason why you always have to be in a position to add to your portfolio and acquire new clients, because you already have a certain shrinkage and in times of recession anyway due to insolvencies and all sorts of things.
So you are well advised to at least do enough business development to maintain the level, but ideally to grow.
David
Yes, great. There were really, really many aspects in there and I think there were also a few nuggets for your own career and perhaps points or impulses where you should question yourself. So thank you very much, Christian, for your time and perhaps one or two younger colleagues should perhaps take a look at it two or three times, because some of it is only in your embedded subordinate sentences.
David
I can only say that we have already spoken to each other several times and I have learnt a great deal from these discussions, also for our work and for what we pass on to our candidates.
I can only call on people not to simply follow the path that seems to be predetermined within a law firm, but to at least consider whether it really makes sense or whether there is a better way.
Christian
Yes, exactly. You need to manage your career. So that’s also personal responsibility for everyone. Each person has to see how they get on.
Yes, but it was a lot of fun. Thank you very much for letting me join you. And you asked great questions. It was a lot of fun. Thank you very much.
David
Thank you, Christian.
